| Dear Menachem and hevreh, I am having a lot of trouble with the last sentence in this conversation: "I would rather sit behind a mechitzah than attend a shul, let's say, that can't get a minyan on YO"T". It's not easy to be a traditional Jew when many of the communities around you, even your own home, have moved towards being less observant. There is almost no weekly Conservative or traditional egalitarian Shabbat minha here in Northern Westchester County (just an hour away from NYC). What's more, my Hillel does not have an egalitarian seudat shlishit. If I wanted that, plus some good Torah, I'd have to walk down to 93rd Street (I live about 30 blocks away), which is all fine and good, but it's not the most convenient option. I walk for a half hour. It's good exercise, for sure. But when my family was driving for half an hour each way 4 times a week for Shabbat and Hebrew school, we decided that we needed to move closer to shul. I don't have that option right now. So why do I make the trek? Because I need to help create a community for me and others like me who want this. This shul has been welcoming to me, and I want to be part of that. Sometimes, it gets to be too much to do so much walking. So I've tried to make a bunch of Kabbalat Shabbat minyanim locally with some friends. It doesn't always work, but I figure it out. In essence, Rabbi Konigsburg is completely right; those who are dissatisfied make their own communities. USY didn't really inspire this, though I do thank the Summer in the City program for turning me towards the community (the List College community) in which I have grown and become inspired to be a community creator. In USY, I learned that it's hard to be an inspiring Religious Education VP (or religious leader of any kind) when no one wants to listen. I hope that we can frame halakha in an inspiring way, kind of like Edwin what would like to accomplish. If you don't provide any inspiration, no one will ever come. I acknowledge that separate communities will do what they will. I am starting to accept that neither I nor any leader has much control over that. But I will still try my best to frame halakha, which is without question part of Conservative Judaism, in an inspiring way so that the person who wants to be on a halakhic journey, as I am, will feel welcome and confident enough to start walking. Back to what started this conversation in the first place: I've said it before and I'll say it again. If the Chancellor talks about only liberal Jewish values and not necessarily Conservative Jewish values, then I won't read anymore. It doesn't say anything to me. Stop waiting to talk about halakha - let's talk now! Shabbat Shalom, Nina S. Kretzmer --- On Thu, 6/16/11, Rabbi Menachem Creditor <rabbicreditor@gmail.com> wrote:
|
__._,_.___
Visit our home page at http://www.shefanetwork.org
*****************************************
"Shefa: The Conservative Movement Dreaming from Within" is a forum for
passionate Conservative Jews to reflect together as they increase creative
energy within within the culture and environment of the Conservative
Movement in an effort to bring a renewed and revitalized perspective to
Conservative Jews.
We belong to the Conservative Movement and commit ourselves to working
towards its revitalization. Be a part of this community of visionary
thinkers and builders. To join the conversation, email
shefa-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.
Visit our home page at http://www.shefanetwork.org
*****************************************
*****************************************
"Shefa: The Conservative Movement Dreaming from Within" is a forum for
passionate Conservative Jews to reflect together as they increase creative
energy within within the culture and environment of the Conservative
Movement in an effort to bring a renewed and revitalized perspective to
Conservative Jews.
We belong to the Conservative Movement and commit ourselves to working
towards its revitalization. Be a part of this community of visionary
thinkers and builders. To join the conversation, email
shefa-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.
Visit our home page at http://www.shefanetwork.org
*****************************************
.
__,_._,___
Cheryl
Cheryl B. • Nothing I've read lately from JTS or USCJ mentions halakha. I understood halakha to be a core element of Conservative Judaism. If it's not, maybe I'm in the wrong place.
Susanna
Susanna L. • I agree wholeheartedly. I've been reading articles over the past year or so that mention Conservative Judaism as being among the 'liberal movements,' & I said to a friend, "I thought we were traditionalists. Since when have we become the liberalists?" Then she pointed out to me all the things that have taken place in recent years (which I'd just ignored for the moment).
I read recently that UCSJ wants to change the name of the movement. If that happens, then maybe I won't be afraid/ashamed to call myself a Conservative Jew. But I'm beginning to understand what it means to be post-denominational...
Susanna Levin
Ewa Maniawski
Ewa Maniawski T. • It is so interesting! My pet peeve over the past few years has been the fact that the "h" word seems to have become a dirty word within our movement. We bent over backwards in order not to use it, because supposedly (and - sadly - in reality) it scares an average person away. It goes for official statements that come out of our movement, it goes for a lot of our rabbis, leaders, educators, etc. There is no understanding that we could reclaim this notion without expecting each and every member of the Conservative community to lead a fully halachic life. If we stress that the halacha a source of inspiration and guidance to help us gradually increase the level of holiness in our lives, and not only a set of harsh "dos and don'ts", then we have a chance to provide food for the starving souls and minds of contemporary seekers. These verbal somersaults don't buy us any more followers, and only perpetuate the image of our movement as suffering from an acute lack of ability to figure out what it wants to be when it grows up.
Susanna
Susanna L. • Absolutely. And it drives away the people whom we should want to attract.
Some of our best people, or their children, have abandoned us for the
Orthodox movement.
Susanna Levin
---------- Original Message ----------
Cheryl
Cheryl B. • Members of Conservative congregations have ignored halakha for a long time, but I identified with the movement because of its principles and because the leadership was halakhic, I thought it was a case of poor education. But if the leadership does not promote halakhic Judaism, I'm not sure why we're a separate movement from Reform or Reconstructionist.
Edwin
Edwin F. • Perhaps more than concern with halacha, we should focus on practice. I recognize the two terms are synonyms, but the sense is different. Halacha deals with what is expected of us, and represents a "legal" expectation of our behavior.
However, for amcha who have no sense of our heritage nor studied our texts in the most esoteric manner, what compels observance of halacha? Halachic confomity, perhaps, should be relegated to a major goal, perhaps in the sense of Rosenzweig's work.
However, even in the absence of a halachic standard, and even without demanding halachic conformity, perhaps we should as a movement speak of standards of behavior that should be normative in Conservative Judaism. Abbrogration of those standards would not demand any kind of exclusion, but would hopefully bring with it a sense of guilt or at minimum of recognition that our congregants see and recognize these standards and for some reason opted not to observe them.
The standards to select? I am not sure. My top choices would be those of the halachic community at large: shmirat Shabbat, taharat hamishpacha, tefillah kol yom (not necessarily in shul), shmirat chagim umoadim, tsedaka.
Moreover, I would strive to change the reason for observance from simply yirat Shamayim to communal duty. Thus for example, if Jews en masse refuse to observe Shabbat, a time may come when no employer will permit Jews to take off for Shabbat. Similarly, if Jews do not take off from work and school on yom tov, a time could come when schools and employers will not accept absence on yom tov as legitimate.
Years ago I wanted to create a new movement but never had the gall to push it, nor the time or effort. The movement would not have had much in the ways of underlying philosophy but would have been premised on the notion that the more mitzvot we observe the better it is for us as individuals and a community. This notion of course is biblical, but it is central. Making that notion central to Conservative Jews may be our most important and biggest challenge.
Cheryl
Cheryl B. • Ed,
i agree with much of what you've written. Yirat Shamayim is a very hard sell at any rate.
but i don't see Conservative leadership speaking of halakha OR observance. I've discussed this since I was at JTS in the '80s. I trusted then that my friends and colleagues there would be the ones to make the change. I discussed this at JEA conferences when I was an educational director in the '90s. I discussed it during my years as a teacher at Schechter in '00s. Now we're discussing it here. I think many of us are the same participants in the discussion. Where's the leadership?
Susanna
Susanna L. • Cheryl,
You're not the first person to say that the Conservative movement has no leadership. I heard this recently from a retired rabbi (who revived a floundering synagogue & spoke about halacha all the time).
But is anyone out there paying attention to what we're saying, or are we just having a frustrated conversation out here in cyberspace?
Randall
Randall K. • It is strange that I talk about Halacha all the time and I hear it from others in the movement as well. Rabbis Neil Gillman and Joel Roth made a whole tour about it just a year or two ago. Chancellor Eisen if JTS has a Mitzvah Initiative to reintroduce the idea of "being commanded". I know many Rabbis who preach Shabbat and Kashrut and many congregations today are becoming more traditional, not less. On the other hand, if what you mean by Halacha is a strict adherence to ritual and orthodox tradition, then we are taking about two different things. Conservative Judaism sees Halacha as a continuum of practice. Someone who begins to observe Shabbat by lighting candles and/or saying Kiddush is becoming more observant. Halacha is something we grow into, not something we adopt suddenly one day. The one who eats treif meat but chooses not to have milk with it is making his/her first step into Kashrut. In our movement, nobody is going to say, "you are not halachic enough", We want to encourage more participation and we do that by drawing them closer and not criticizing their first attempts. We do not follow orthodox interpretations of Halacha, but we do follow our own interpretations, and they can be demanding in their own way. Remember, not everyone who is an Orthodox Jew is committed to halacha and not every Conservative Jew is either. But we try to get our members to challenge themselves to do more as they grow in spirituality.
Susanna
Susanna L. • Well, we can debate all we want about what constitutes halacha, but I can tell you (I don't have permission, so will not reveal individuals involved) that a professor at JTS was told by a colleague "The Conservative movemnent is no longer halachic; get over it."
In addition, as I wrote in a letter to the editor of CJ Kolot about a yr ago, reacting to an article which related that International USY Convention delegates couldn't understand why the Law Committee couldn't just repeal something it didn't like by popular vote -- that halachic process is more detailed than, say, a vote in Congress: "...if the cream of the crop (USYers who attend Convention) of our youth haven't a clue about what halacha is all about, we're doomed." [apologies for the run-on sentence]
Susanna Levin
Cheryl
Cheryl B. • Randall,
I am absolutely not arguing for "orthodox observance" (I detest the term "conservadox". I also believe that all observant Jews want to draw other Jews closer and no one here wants to criticize any other Jew. We are simply frustrated (ok I'll speak for myself) that the movement which represents the principles I adhere to, doesn't seem to have the leadership that is really teaching about observance.
A few years ago my daughters spent a year at a Ramah camp and while much of it was good they were uncomfortable with the laxity in observance. I have also been in too many Conservative congregations where rabbis and lay leadership have been unsympathetic to halakhic demands, for example not being able to accomodate my need to walk to synagogue on Shabbat.
I've also been to USY conventions where tzniut was not even thought of.
We may indeed have our "own interpretations" but do we let our congregants, our students, know about them.
Randall
Randall K. • I think we need to step back and think about what we want from our movement. For a long time, the term "Halachic" meant that the law developed based on legal principles defined over the centuries by the Rabbis. The problem is, and always has been, that as morality develops, the legal principles are not able to keep up. So we have to choose, do we keep up legal principles that make us and Jewish Law look immoral, or do we choose morality and abandon (or selectively abandon) the legal principles. American Law is in the same boat, Do we follow only what the Constitution says (or the intent of the founding fathers) or do we react to internationally recognized legal standards that don't appear anywhere in American Law (at least not yet). When a professor says to a colleage "We are no longer Halachic" he is not abandoning Jewish Law, he is saying that the structure of legal principles is no longer enough to support an ethical legal system.
I have visited synagogues where they have made every effort to find a place for me to stay on Shabbat. But if a synagogue does not or cannot do it, that is a problem for me but not for my movement. It is an issue with a synagogue and, if they are like many synagogues I know, just because one person said it, does not mean that it is the policy of the congregation. Sometimes they just don't know any better. Sure there are congregations that require a Rabbi who wishes to serve that synagogue to ride on Shabbat. It still is a valid position from the Law Committee. But if I walk to shul, I will not apply to that congregation. It is not for me. If they have a tri annual torah reading and I beleive in a full reading, I can try and change their minds or go somewhere else. As for Tzniut, I think that if you poll three people you will get four or five answers as to what is modest and what is not. I think that the only thing they will agree on is that the Orthodox understanding of modesty is not theirs.
The crux of the matter is that there is a wide range of opinions in our movement and just because someone disagrees with our position does not make them "unhalachic" nor does it "taint" our movement. Do we really want a movement, a board of directors in NY or anywhere else (no slur on NY intended) telling us what is and is not a part of our movement? Right now there are only three standards that the entire movement must uphold. Otherwise is is local Rabbis and local congregations that decide what is in and what is out. That is the system and it has been the system in Judaism for centuries until the Orthodox tried to bully everyone into complience with their system. Conservative Judaism is hard to learn, messy to perform and inconsitent around the world - but it still is the best system once you compare it with everything else.
Edwin
Edwin F. • Randall,
I sympathize how difficult it can be when one is traditionally shomer Shabbat and needs to walk to shul on Shabbat. I am in the same boat. I cannot tell you how many jobs I have lost when synagogues told me that there was no affordable housing within walking distance of a shul.
Now I don't know if that is a financial problem or a philosophical one.
On one hand, I would think that they theoretically accept that they should offer livable wages, and yet, somehow in calculating that figure, living a life as a shomer Shabbat Jew does not enter the equation.
Now if we are going to have committed professional leaders, does that mean they either sacrifice their values or live in poverty?
Does not seem much of a solution to me. We have to somehow convince our members that halacha is not a theoretical abstract for those who adhere to it and take it seriously.
Susanna
Susanna L. • That's why some of our most committed are leaving the movement. Paul Freedman once had a group of former USYers over, (as I think he often does), & asked them 'where they were' vis a vis Jewish involvement. He asked one particular woman who said she was now was affiliated as Orthodox why she left the Conservative movement. Her answer was, "I didn't leave the movement; it left me."
As far as: "When a professor says to a colleague "We are no longer Halachic" he is not abandoning Jewish Law, he is saying that the structure of legal principles is no longer enough to support an ethical legal system." Nice midrash perhaps, but I'm not buying it.
Susanna Levin
Randall
Randall K. • Susanna, most of our committed are not leaving the movement. While I understand that there are some who do leave the movement, remember, they are leaving to join an orthodox movement that is not egalitarian and for many people can be rather repressive. If that is what someone wants from their Judaism, then they are right to leave our movement. On the other hand, there are those in orthodox circles who find our openess is a plus and they come to join us. Unfortunatly, they have to give up a large social circle because they are often shunned when they leave orthodoxy. Our movement is NOT for everyone. What I find, however, is that our layity is getting more traditional and wanting more from their Judaism than even our congregations can give them so they are starting their own Kehillot.
Which brings me to Edwin's (do I call you Ed?) post. There are indeed many congregations (not members but governing boards) who do behave badly. That is another reason many Conservative Jews leave congregations and go to Kehillot that may or may not be affiliated but are tradtional egalitarian communities, ones that fit nicely into our definition of our movement. I don't look at congregations who require Rabbis to ride on Shabbat as damaging to Rabbis, but as congregations who are missing out on some very good and talented Rabbis who don't ride on Shabbat. It is also their loss. Remember, they could buy an house for the Rabbi and resolve the entire issue and they don't. I don't sacrifice my values. I may lose (and have lost) a job but I still have to live with myself. No job is worth that kind of sacrifice. I try not to sweat the things I miss out by being shomer shabbat, I look instead for places where I can live the life I choose to live: A traditional Jewish life.
To go back to where this thread started. Halacha is not a fixed goal, but a way of living that grows as we grow. If we judge ourselves by someone else's standards, we will never attain our goal. If we look at Halacha, and see what it wants from us and strive to live by those values, then we are living an Halachic life, one that will grow and change as our lives grow and change. As one Jew said to me, "I can't keep a kosher kitchen with separation between milk and meat until I move to a new home with a better kitchen. I will be able to do that in a couple of years when I get promoted at work." So he is as kosher as he can be for now (I think dairy only at home) but will grow in his observance when he is able to change his circumstances. Someone may say " I will ride to shul for now but the next time I move, I am moving closer to a synagogue" he too is on the halachic path.
Susanna
Susanna L. • I don't think anyone in any movement would disagree regarding people who are on a path to greater observance. That's not unique to us.
I realize that most of the people who leave the C. movement aren't going to the Orthodox 'camp.' Most of our loss in numbers is due to assimilation & attrition (actuarial realities). But the reason people drift right-ward, in some cases, is due to the 'left-ward' shift on home turf. I would rather sit behind a mechitzah than attend a shul, that let's say, couldn't get a minyan on YO"T (doesn't happen any place I've been recently, but I know that it does). This is just the 1st example that pops into mind, but I hope you get the drift.
Susanna Levin